Sunday, November 2, 2008

अस्तित्व में प्रकटन है, उत्पत्ति नहीं

अस्तित्व स्थिर है - उसमें कोई घट-बढ़ नहीं है। कोई चीज नया नहीं बन रहा है। अस्तित्व में प्रकटन है, उत्पत्ति नहीं है। जैसे- पदार्थावस्था में प्राणावस्था को प्रकट करने (project करने) की बात समाई ही रहती है। अस्तित्व के प्रकटन क्रम में परिवर्तन (गुणात्मक और मात्रात्मक) है - लेकिन कोई उत्पत्ति (creation) या विनाश (annihilation or disappearance) नहीं है। अस्तित्व "होना" और "रहना" है। "होना" प्राकृतिक है। "रहना" प्रकटन है। प्रकटन सह-अस्तित्व में विकास-क्रम, विकास, जागृति-क्रम, और जागृति के स्वरूप में है।

यह इस धरती की ही बात नहीं है, अनंत धरतियों पर ऐसा ही है।

पदार्थ-अवस्था में ही एक जलने वाला वस्तु (hydrogen), और एक जलाने वाला वस्तु (oxygen) - ये दोनों मिल कर यौगिक विधि से प्यास बुझाने वाली वस्तु (पानी) को प्रोजेक्ट कर दिए। कैसे इस सह-अस्तित्व सहज प्राकृतिक गवाही (natural evidence) को छुपाया जाए, कैसे इसको प्रकट करने में शरमाया जाए?

मध्यस्थ-दर्शन प्राकृतिक गवाहियों का ही अध्ययन है।

- बाबा श्री नागराज शर्मा के साथ संवाद पर आधारित (भोपाल, अक्टूबर २००८)


Anonymous said...

There is no difference between what Babaji says about creation/destruction and what I had written earlier. There is no confusion about the complimentary nature of incomplete units(atoms) either, however I still have not come across a single article on MDs definitions of events that occur in Nature(kriya).If you have any please post them because that is what is significant to defining "purpose".

Rakesh Gupta said...

There are four keywords which define the kriyas of nature. All these four are expressions of coexistence.

1. Vikas-kram
2. Vikas
3. Jagruti-kram
4. Jagruti

Here are their definitions.

Vikas-kram is expression of coexistence in jad-sansaar. (as padaarth-avastha and praan-avastha)

vikas is gathan poornta - or jeevan parmanu. which is the conscious-entity responsible for enlivening bodies of animals and humans.

jagruti-kram is expression of humankind in illusion with natural-expectation of awakening.

jagruti is expression of humankind with awakening.

The activities in existence are essentially numerous permutations and combinations of these four. The purpose of existence is to have jagruti realized. It is with jagruti that all four orders realize their continuity in existence. - perhaps clears this.


Rakesh Gupta said...

Another description of this is to see the activities in nature as:

1. bhautik kriya
2. raasaynik kriya
3. jeevan kriya

the four natural-orders in existence (matter-order, plant-order, animal-order, and knowledge-order) are numerous permutations and combinations of these three kriyas.

matter order is physical activity alone.

plant-order is physical and chemical activities.

animal order is a combined expression of jad (physiochemical) and chaitanya (jeevan kriya).

knowledge-order is also the same way, with a difference - knowledge-order has the possibility of realizing awakening due to expression of imagination and free-will. this realizing awakening is the purpose of existence.

Anonymous said...

Thanks.Any material on MDs explanation(how and why) of catastrophic natural events such as meteors striking the earth, volcanoes, earthquakes and other such phenomena that cause changes in the orderliness and placement of entities in existence will be appreciated and is crucial to my understanding of MD.

Rakesh Gupta said...

Earth is purposeful. Its purpose is harmonious existence of all four natural-order. Earth's journey has been to enable that to happen.

There are natural-cycles on Earth for quakes, volcanoes, hurricanes etc. These have definite patterns. These patterns get disturbed due to human-activities done in illusion. Human-activities can cause disturbances at Earth-scale. The root cause for this is human-imagination's going berserk. Human-imagination is not stemmed with the knowledge of existence as it is - and this is the reason for its activities leading to disturbance in natural-cycles causing huge catastrophes. Natural-evidence of this is being observed as Global-warming. Increasingly people are recognizing that human-activities (esp in the last 200-300 years) is the root-cause for this deadlock condition, which has raised the question-mark on humankind's survival on the planet.

For every argument there is counter-argument, and we don't come to any conclusive understanding through method of debate. Therefore, this analysis is shared as a humble proposal - which one is invited to evaluate based on one's need, and with hope that one would pay serious attention to what's being said... Acceptance or rejection of this is a matter of the other person's freedom.

Human-being with awakening lives with comprehension of natural-cycles and his actions are in harmony with orderliness of nature.

I remember having a dialogue with baba over this, and will try to dig that out...


Anonymous said...


I truly understand the goals of this proposal which is why I am interested in it. It makes no difference whether I accept or reject, what you must understand is, since the proposal is being presented as a series of propositions, the truth of which can be verified logically we must take utmost care not to present any circular arguments otherwise the whole thing falls apart.
An example of circular argument is one that begs the question, one where the conclusion is implied or assumed in the proposition itself.
Propositon 1 - Existence is in orderliness
Proposition 2 - Man is in existence
Conclusion Existence is in orderliness, man is in existence therefore man should be in orderliness.
This is a circular argument and cannot be accepted logically (the conclusion has the proposition itself, so you are concluding something which you began with initially).

If you research phenomena such as global warming
you will be surprised to know that even if man stopped all his CO2 emissions GW would still continue to happen(as it has happned much more severely in pre historic times) because of earth's Natural cycles. No one(least of all NPCC) till date has been able to understand why and how or what exactly is the pattern here. Scientists are only guessing(You can read the NPCC report yourself), just like no one can ever tell when exactly the next hurricane or earthquake will happen. There is this lag between man and Nature that Science seeks to bridge and we call this attempt a pursuit of Scientific Truth. Religious Schools have explained a lot of the Unknown(lag) away by their concept of God (creator/destroyer/sustainer) so the questions stop right there. In MD you have removed this Creator/Destroyer/Sustainer aspect from the concept of God. But what about the lag? How do you explain it? This is the missing piece or missing note you must ask Babaji to explain.
I have other such similar questions regarding Self and Ego which is again very crucial for Self Realization. However if you want to stop right here I will not persist because it is not my intention to prove anyone wrong or right.
Nothing is achieved by that. However in the pursuit of Truth if there are missing pieces we need to fill in those. I am sure Babaji would have something to explain this lag, it is only that it is not there in front of us yet, so please do ask him this question.
Thanks for your patience, sincerity and commitment, I can see that you have all that it takes to be a true saadhak and you are not too far from your destination.

Rakesh Gupta said...

Thanks for your very kind words... Yes, the propositions need to pass the test of logical consistency. Your inquisition stretches me, and it is helpful in understanding this proposition better. (perhaps not just to me, but to other readers of this blog) I will attempt here for the specific points you have brought up.

Propositon 1 - Existence is in purposeful for successively higher expressions of orderliness.
Proposition 2 - Human-being is inseprable in existence.
Proposition 3 - Every human-being has natural-expectation to be in orderliness.
Proposition -4: Human-being realizes this natural-expectation upon perfect-comprehension of existence as it is.

The lag between human-being and nature is there in human-perception till one has perfect-comprehension of existence, is the proposal of MD. This lag in human-perception of existence itself is illusion. Human-being is the seer (drishta) of existence upon completing adhyayan. This state means zero lag between self and everything else. It means, perfectness in communication and perfectness in comprehension of natural-cycles.

Natural-cycles of Earth are not predictable through use of mathematics modeling. Nature has madhyasth-kriya - which is the balancing activity, which can't be captured through mathematics. Madhyasth-kriya can only be comprehended - and with this comprehension one can do decision-making.

The whole idea of dialogue is to fill our missing pieces, and complete our comprehension. The aspects which we can't fill together, we can always look upto Baba. Please do persist with me, despite my being impatient at times!!


Anonymous said...

"Perfect Comprehension". Does this state imply that after attaining this state(completion of adhyayan) one can predict exactly when and how the next earthquake or flood will happen and one will have the knowledge/power to stop it? (Zero lag)
Or does it imply - you will have to accept with grace that knowing exactly when and being able to prevent such things from happening is beyond a human's capacity. So just accept the events as they happen and do not let them break you or make you define your purpose.(Just having the grace to acknowledge the lag and live gracefully with it(coexistence))
To me the latter looks logically acceptable and I feel this is what Babaji might have to say too. You must check with him to confirm.
I feel once we establish this is what is the goal of MD then we can elaborate more on seeking a madhyasthanam(mediation) between human defined purpose of other entities and the Nature defined purpose. Because of a lack of mediation between these two purposes we see man as exploiting other entities for his selfish ends.

Anonymous said...

Also please post the original hindi propositions. The ones you wrote in English sound a bit odd.
Thanks ........

Rakesh Gupta said...

Comprehension is distinct from acknowledgment of "lag" (which sounds like succumbing to tolerate one's fate) - I think... It is with comprehension one does decision-making for the direction to take.

Comprehension is of orderliness of natural-cycles. In the light of this comprehension, aberrations from these cycles are also recognized. The aberrations in natural-cycles are impositions of human-illusion on nature.

Perfect-Comprehension (samajhdari) is - "samajhdaari ke baad hum astitva se shunya dooree ko pramaanit karte hain". "shunya dooree ko pramaanit kar sakte hain - isse bada pramaan kya hoga?"

Human-being is the seer of existence, and perfect-comprehension means ability to see entirety. One "perceives" a lag between self (jeevan) and rest of the nature till one has comprehended it.

The extent to which I have studied this proposal - there is no distinction between human-defined purpose and nature-defined purpose. There is purposefulness in existence (which is nature saturated in Space). Human-being is also an entity of Nature. Upon perfect-comprehension of existence, a human-being can realize orderliness in its living.

Please see if the following addresses your requirement for the fundamentals of madhyasth-darshan.

yes, the english presentation is dodgy at the moment. it is "work in progress".