Saturday, October 18, 2008

संदेश, सूचना, फ़िर अध्ययन

संदेश, सूचना, फ़िर अध्ययन। अध्ययन के बाद रुकता नहीं है। आप-हमारे बीच में संदेश और सूचना हो गयी है - अब अध्ययन की बारी है। अध्ययन में हम कितना गतिशील हो पायेंगे, यह सोचने का मुद्दा है। अध्ययन के बिना कोई व्यक्ति विद्वान हो गया, अच्छा-पन प्रमाणित हो गया - यह हो नहीं सकता। इसके अलावा "अच्छा-पन" को व्यक्त करने की दो जगह हैं - "सेवा" और "श्रम" के रूप में। ज्यादा से ज्यादा बढ़िया सेवा कर सकते हैं, या श्रम कर सकते हैं - इससे ज्यादा कुछ नहीं कर सकते। इसमें भी श्रमशीलता को लोगों ने अच्छा वास्तव में माना नहीं है। श्रम को अच्छा कहा भी होगा तो औपचारिक रूप में कहा होगा। यहाँ तक कि श्रम करने वाला भी यह तय नहीं कर पा रहा है कि श्रम करना अच्छा कार्य है, या बुरा। "समझदारी" का कुछ अता-पता नहीं है, इसलिए उसकी श्रेष्ठता की कोई बात ही नहीं है।

इसलिए समझदारी को जनमानस में डालने के लिए एक प्रयोग तो किया जाए! बर्बादी के लिए आदमी ने इतने प्रयोग किए हैं, एक प्रयोग आबादी के लिए भी किया जाए। यहाँ से हम शुरू किए। इसके लिए इस दशक में हम कुछ काम किए। करने पर पता चला - हमारे थोड़े करने पर ही ज्यादा फल होता है। आबादी का फल ज्यादा विस्तार होता है, बर्बादी का फल सीमित होता जाता है। यह धरती की ही महिमा है। आदमी धरती के साथ इतना बर्बादी किया - फ़िर भी धरती हर दुर्घटना को छोटा बना कर छोड़ देती है। इसलिए हर दुर्घटना सुधर सकता है, इस जगह में हम आते हैं। इससे मैं यह आशा करता हूँ - धरती में अभी भी सुधरने की ताकत किसी न किसी अंश में रखी है। इसलिए धरती की इस ताकत को बुलंद करने के लिए अपने आबादी के प्रयोगों को बुलंद किया जाए।

- बाबा श्री नागराज शर्मा के साथ संवाद पर आधारित (जनवरी २००७)


Anonymous said...

More than a human being it is Nature that damages or changes earth's environment. Events like Volcanoes,Floods,earthquakes,Natural Global Warming and cooling cycles etc cause far more damage than a human could ever cause it and seeks to alter or destroy the life force(jeevan) on this planet. In fact it is this power of Mother Nature that makes a human seek to understand the catastrophes that seek to destroy his existence in order to prevent that from happening. A human's effort to create, destroy, rebuild and sustain is in response to Nature's efforts to do the same. So it is always a human being's endeavor to understand the schizophrenic nature of Nature to defend himself from her fury and appreciate her bountifulness in times of calm. This is what makes him define his purpose and the purpose of things around him. In fact it is the lag between him and Nature the helplessness and fear for his existence that he feels against her fury that makes him define GOD.
It is this lag that most major religious ideologies call TRUTH.
From what I understand babaji is saying do not worry about that lag, just accept it is there and will always be so. The TRUTH is that you will have to coexist with Nature, accept her Schizophrenic Nature and do not seek to protect yourself from it or explain it. Just live with Her since you are born from Her. Can Babaji tell me if my understanding is correct?

Rakesh Gupta said...

I will not be able to speak on behalf of Baba. Will respond to this with my limited understanding.

madhyasth-darshan proposes that nature is not schizophrenic. On the contrary there is definitiveness and orderliness in existence. Human-being - who is inseparable part of existence - when is established in this understanding of orderliness, becomes also capable of understanding the aspects such as - death, decay, disease, and other natural-cycles.

The need to comprehend existence is there in a human-being as a natural-expectation - and not as a reaction. Though it is correct that most of human pursuit for knowledge has been for survival. That pursuit has its value. The attention which madhyasth-darshan trying to bring is - to the Natural-Expectation for Justice, Happiness, Orderliness, Harmony... It's there in every human-being, as a given thing... Not as a bargain, or as an imposition. This expectation can only be fulfilled by study of existence as it is. This expectation can't be fulfilled by learning skills of survival.

This "need to know" is the defining trait of a human-being, proclaims madhyasth-darshan. this is what makes it distinct from animals. Until this need is addressed and fulfilled - human-happiness always stays beyond reach. When this need is addressed and fulfilled - that gives the ability (as natural-acceptance) in a human-being to realize itself. Self-realization happens in coexistence, and nowhere else - proclaims MD.

Hope this helps...

Anonymous said...

Thanks for replying but my question is not resolved. Perhaps if you are able to answer the following it might help.
"barbaadi ke liye aadmi ne itne prayog kiye ek prayog aabadi ke liye bhi ho jaaye" Can you give me a concrete example of aadmi ne barbaadi ke liye kya prayog kiye aur aap ya bababji ne aabadi ke liye kya prayog kiye?
Basically barbaadi kya, aadbadi kya?

Rakesh Gupta said...

"It is this lag that most major religious ideologies call TRUTH."

The definition of truth from madhyasth-darshan is: Coexistence itself is truth. Human-being can be living in orderliness, and with self-confidence upon achieving wisdom of coexistence (truth) - is the essential proposition here.

The entities of nature are purposeful. This purposefulness is not an imposition by a human-being. It's there even if human-being doesn't recognize it, or when it is not there to recognize it. Human-being only needs to recognize this purposefulness of entities of nature (and of itself), for living harmoniously.

Adhyayan is about recognizing purposefulness of existence in the light of proofs (as living human-being) of one who has experienced.

"Proof" or Evidence of any proposition that explains existence (including Jeevan Vidya) can only be a living self-realized human-being. In the absence of living human-being as proofs we only have logical constructs - which never reach to any conclusion.

Rakesh Gupta said...

In my view: atom-bomb and war-techniques can be called barbaadi ke liye prayog. preparing graduates maniacs for profit through business-schools is another example for barbaadi ke liye prayog.

"humanization of education" (incorporation of study of coexistence into education curriculum) is a prayog for aabaadi. jeevan vidya programme (for value education based on consciousness-development) is a prayog for aabaadi.

barbaadi ke prayog are - The efforts which lead to disharmony and decadence/decline in humankind's living in existence.

aabaadi ke prayog are - The efforts which lead to harmony and progressiveness in humankind's living in existence.

Anonymous said...

But the atom bomb say its creators, was done for establishing peace, harmony! At the time it was perceived as the only way to stop the second world war and it certainly did that also worked in acting as a deterrent to prevent a third world war!
An antidote for poison is poison itself.
Why did Abul Kalam a self proclaimed proponent of peace, work on making the Indian Atom bomb? So that it would act as a deterrent to India's enemies.
So perceiving the effort of making an atom bomb as for aabaadi or barbaadi is a relative matter.
Therefore I would first like to start by MD defining "aabaadi" and "barbaadi".
Again you keep saying Proof of a proposition is a self realized human being. I have met many people who claim to be self realized and I often wonder what they all mean indeed if they mean the same thing as I understand it to mean. Each one is very different from the other in their dharma and karma. Each one claims only they are self realized all others are frauds.
I have come to conclude to each his own meaning of self realization. It seems to be relative.
I therefore beg to differ on your last line.
MD seems to propagate logical enquiry of propositions as a path of truth. It appears so from what babaji says.
Yes a human has to verify the truth in the propositions by his karma or actions.
However establishing the basic axioms and propositions and above all the fundamental definitions is the way to start. From what I have seen published on the web so far this is obviously barely enough.
I am only trying to point out what you need to define more as we go along. For example: aabaadi, barbaadi.

Gopal said...

Dear Sir/Madam,

Let me try to answer your question. I believe MD has a complete world view. It claims that it has everything needed for one to get self realized.

I will suggest you to first study that proposal and then come up with questions. Without understanding the proposal itself, if you try to question that, it is not going to take you anywhere.

So the very first step is to study the proposal, once you are sure you understood the proposal, then it is up to you to accept it or reject it.

Now during the process of studying the proposal , you will have lots of questions which will be directed towards understanding the proposal, not towards accepting or rejecting it.

Once you understood it completely , you can accept it or reject it. It is just that simple.

But the whole point , you have to understand the proposal in its entirety.

I believe all your question will just go away.


Anonymous said...

Where is the question of me accepting or rejecting your proposal? It is irrelevant whether I accept or reject. Besides I am not here to either accept or reject.
The whole point is, you are trying to study MD here without addressing the fundamentals. No one who ever set out in search of TRUTH (even scientific truth) ever began anywhere other than by addressing the concepts of creation and destruction. Babaji indicates so himself when he says "barbaadi ke liye aadmi ne itne prayog kiye ek prayog aabadi ke liye bhi ho jaaye".
I realize you guys are not interested in the fundamentals so I will hereafter get off this blog since it does not seem to want to explore the fundamentals.
Thanks ....

Rakesh Gupta said...

Dear Sir/Madam,

We are interested in understanding the fundamentals of this philosophy, and are trying our best. Your involvement is valuable. Your accepting and rejecting this, is a matter of your freedom.

Again, I would request that please study this proposal without seeking conformance to other schools of thought. I say this without disrespect for other schools of thought.

specifically for creation and destruction: MD proposes that existence doesn't have a point of creation, or a creator. existence is. Destruction is not annihilation, but a different status of the same matter. Existence is purposeful, and has a direction for successive emergence. aabaadi indicates harmoniousness. barbaadi indicates disharmony.


Anonymous said...

Creation/Destruction are but two states of existence of matter. States are always relative to each other. This is how they are defined even in the English dictionary.
Creation - to bring into existence, existence being defined as " being with respect to a limiting condition or under a particular aspect"
Destruction - to put out of existence or alter the existence.
It is human nature to seek continuity of objects remaining in existence, they feel secure in the familiarity. A human tends to define existence with his limiting condition "perception from senses". This is why a human feels a sense of loss when objects cease to be in his perception. Yet a human has to accept that objects going in and out of his perception is what is called the circle of life. When his perception(consciousness) expands beyond his limiting condition "the senses" he is able to accept this TRUTH.
This is the fundamental note (Shadj in music) in the search for TRUTH. Men set out in this search, beginning by fearing Destruction (whether by man or nature) seeking somehow to maintain a state of continuity or harmony. (Babaji himself has said so, so have Buddha, Jesus, Mohammad etc).
Mujhe to bada anand aata hai, jab madhyastha darshan mein bhi vahi sur milte hain jo aur sangeet mein bhi mujhe mile hain. Samajh mein nahin aata ki aap logon ko is baat se itni dikkat kyon ho rahi hai. Mujhe to aisa lagta hai, jab shadj to mil gaya, ab aur sur pahchaan ne mein koyi baadha nahin hogi, bus ab yahi samajhna hai ke babaji ne apne sangeet mein ye sur kaise milaye hain. Jab sab log sur mein sur milate hain tabhi to sangeet(harmony) banta hai.
If Coexistence is Truth in MD then MD must coexist with other philosophies too.
As for learning by questioning vs looking at the whole picture before seeking answers, let tell you, not everyone is a gestalt learner, most are not. People learn differently. So my advice is do not be so bothered by questions, perhaps some of them may help each of us understand MD much better. Do not be so bothered when someone says "yes I found the same truth in another philosophy". There is nothing wrong in finding the commonalities, this is what binds us all, why should we seek to stress the differences when we are seeking to unite, not divide?
I have one request, please post more of Babaji's words here, I see no inconsistencies in what he says which makes it easier to understand MD.

Thanks and keep up your good work.....

Rakesh Gupta said...

thanks for coming back.

there is a difficulty with using dictionary-meanings, since madhyasth-darshan has its own definitions. for example - definition of existence in MD is - being, and being forever. which is not a relative phenomenon at all.


Anonymous said...

When you expand your consciousness(beyond the limiting condition) that is when you understand what "being forever" means. So again we are not talking of two different things here. From my experience I can tell you I am assured that I will find the same fundamental notes in MD too, the only differences will be in the way they are combined which is not a big deal and should not be the focus of your learning or teaching. The first step for any one is to find the fundamental notes. Unfortunately no one person can tell the other how to do it.That you must experience by yourself. I think even Babaji would tell you the same. Each one must realize for himself as Babaji did for himself first.
One who realizes his Self will see how trivial the differences are that are making a din instead of the harmony we seek to create.
By the way even if I don't post questions here I will continue to read what you post so keep up your good work ....